Interview with Senator James T. Hargrett, Jr. Conducted by Leonard F. Tria, Jr., BACS' Chairman of the Board Introduction Good morning and welcome to "Transportation Wake-Up," a news and public affairs presentation of Cox Radio, Tampa Bay, brought to you by Bay Area Commuter Services, your resource for commute options, and now your host, Leonard Tria. TRIA: Good morning and welcome to "Transportation Wake Up," brought to you by Bay Area Commuter Services, the resource for transportation options. My name is Len Tria, BACS' Chairman of the Board. This morning we have as our guest, Senator James T. Hargrett. Senator, good morning and welcome to the show. How are you? SENATOR: Good morning Len, it is a great pleasure to be here with you. You're one of the people in the Tampa Bay area that I've worked with for many, many years in the service of making sure the people of this area have transportation alternatives and choices of transportation modes, as well as, an effective and efficient transportation system. You have been a public servant for many years, so I'd like to thank you for your dedication to the mission of getting people in this region the mobility choices they deserve. TRIA: I appreciate that it has been a long time working with you and I've enjoyed it all these years. I'll tell you one thing though, this is a sad time for most of us, because you will be leaving Tallahassee after 10 years in the House and 8 years in the Senate. I know that will be a tremendous loss to the citizens of Florida. How do you feel about this change in your life? SENATOR: Well, one of the things I've always done, and I guess I inherited that from my father, is always look to the future and always look with optimism. Public service to me has been much like a ministry. That is, that you commit yourself to the future and I've been one of those persons that have worked in the area of transportation. That means long-term thinking, and so right now we're right in the middle of many things in terms of transportation. But I simply hate to give up, so I'm moving on to another level to continue to pursue public service and try to impact the areas of infrastructure needs that we've been working on together, you and I, for probably about the past 15 years. TRIA: It has been quite awhile and how quickly time flies. SENATOR: It sure does. TRIA: I think one of the important things is the fact that you've always realized the economics of transportation and not transportation for transportation's sake. You've always tied economic viability and expansion of economic opportunity to transportation, it became more than just building a road. SENATOR: Well that's right and when I look at the things that I am most proud of over the 18 years I've served on the Legislature, it's sort of been - you know, in 18 years when you're leading and on the cutting edge of transportation issues you can look back and see things that you're responsible for leading. When I look back and see the aviation system in this state, and one fact I'd like to point out to your listeners - you know, Florida is the only state in this nation that invests more in aviation and airports than the Federal Government. In most states the Federal Government is the leader. That is a very significant number and the reason it is important is because 60 percent of our visitors to this tourist state come by air and if we're going to have a viable economy, we must have aviation. We also have an emerging multimodel transportation system, and I will stipulate that there are many sections of the state where people are not ready to take the plunge into rail and bus service, it's adequate, but we have the flow of funds at the state level where those resources are available when the locals decide that it's time for us to move to the next level. And that's one of the things that's positive about the state - our transportation funding stream is equipped and ready to fund a multimodel transportation network. And our improved highway network of major arterials - like I-4, I-75 - that we're giving them the attention that they need, so that people can get from one city to another, and that our visitors can come to this state and have the mobility, and that the economy can continue to prosper. We make our living in this state - right now our major source of revenue is from international trade and international tourism. TRIA: A lot of people don't really know that. SENATOR: That's right and that means that transportation is a viable part of our prosperity. TRIA: I know that you've always looked at the bigger picture in terms of transportation. I remember when you headed the Public Transportation Committee before it became just the Transportation Committee. The fact that you're able to see the different niches that we need in terms of transportation and not just have tunnel vision on one particular area. The connection of airports and seaports is vital to this state. With the way Florida's positioned with South America, we're just perfect and we need to make sure that we have the infrastructure in place, because as you know, trade with South America is getting larger and larger every year. Looking back over the past 17 years and looking back at some of the transportation, I know there were many, many things that you really were involved in and did so much for, but what kind of stands out, that you can look in the mirror and say "I did that" or "I helped to do that?" SENATOR: Well, when you talk about the international trade and South and Central America, one of the things I've always tried to do is figure out where we are in the world in time and space. When I look at this State of Florida, what I see is an urban state, and for those who might question my designating this as an urban state, I think I can make a case that within 25 miles of the coast, all around this state we are one big urban area. And across the center - across the I-4 corridor - we're one large urban area. But we're attached, this state sticks out in the water, and we're attached to the most powerful economy in the world. To the south of us we have the fastest growing region in the world.. We can have a very prosperous future, and I think I've helped the leaders in the direction of that prosperity by the investments we've made in our port system. Sticking out in the water, attached to the most powerful economy in the world, having 14 deep water seaports and several world class airports and having the fastest growing region in the world to the south of us, we can have a very prosperous standard of living for our ordinary citizens. The only thing we have to do is make strategic investments in our transportation infrastructure to accommodate international trade and international tourism The seaports of this state are very healthy and very competitive and that's something I look to with pride, along with the leadership that we're engaging with even in this local area in providing highways that will function effectively and that can be built and designed to save money and to eliminate disruption. We have right here in our midst, in the planning stages, the Selman Expressway Project that is something that when it's built we will invite people from all over the world to come and see an expressway project that was built without disrupting the flow of traffic on the existing highways, and that's very important in an urban area. That was also built so that it could be a reversible-lane highway and having the capacity to be used to test the new cars of the future - the intelligent transportation systems of the future. So we're doing leadership, cutting edge stuff here in this community and I'm proud of the assistance that I've brought to the expressway authority. Pat McQue(?) over there is doing a great job. TRIA: Obviously, I know that you were certainly responsible for obtaining a great deal of the funding for that project. And you're right, that will be a very creative, innovative change in highway system building. I can't wait to really see them get started. SENATOR: Many people have said that Americans have a love affair with their automobile, and if they do that places a burden on us to make sure that we provide the cutting edge mechanisms for moving the most people that we can through our corridors. That will not eliminate the need in the future for this urban area, and I'm talking about the coastal Florida zone, to incorporate public transportation within it's package of transportation modes. It's been my observation, and if you agree with me that we're one big urban area, that all over the world in urban areas you don't just move people by one mode - either rail or bus or roads. Urban areas lend themselves to having everything working together, sort of like a gumbo or stew. In the urban areas of the world, when you wake up in the morning, you have all modes of transportation working together. You've got rail, you've got bus, you've got bicycles, you've got pedestrian activity, you've got automobile - you've got all forms of transportation working together in symphonic precision to move people to and fro within that urban area. TRIA: You know, you're so on target with this, because I remember working with you 10 years ago on the bill that you sponsored for the commuter rail authority. And all though it's been slow going, if you don't lay the foundation you will never build the building. SENATOR: And that's so wise for you to say that, Len. The way I've always put it, without vision the people perish. Even though we've had a big debate raging in this community about whether or not we should have rail, I think that the responsible position for the public officials who are engaged in leadership for 10 years and out, is to make sure that the people of this community have the choices available. That means making some investments in making sure that we have corridors, that we do the planning and that we do the necessary planning to integrate the public transportation that will be needed. TRIA: You're right. You and I both know that 14-lane highways don't work. California has proven that beyond a shadow of a doubt. And it's not just expanding roadways, there has to be some choices that make sense for people and some different modes. I believe with what you helped to establish 10 years ago, the work that we've done together on that, the studies, all of this provides a valuable resource so that we can move steadily towards the future and not really have to start this 10 years from now. We will have, at least, the information to keep moving this forward. I think that's important, because as you and I both know, this area is growing and it will continue to grow. And with that growth we will just be putting more and more people into the mix of having to be mobile. Being able to go, not only shopping, but being able to go to their jobs, the employment centers, the recreational centers, so many things, and the mobility is what's critical. If you can not provide that mobility, then we have a serious problem in investment and trying to attract the proper investment. So all of that, it's a very, very large mix of things, and I think the state again was very fortunate to have someone like yourself that had the vision. I think that one of the things that we just touch on briefly, because this is more out of our line, but I just wanted to ask kind of an opinion on - both the HARTline and PSTA have said that in order to increase service they need additional funding to cover their operating expenses. How do you foresee some of the funding in public transit? I know you were a leader in making sure that there was such a fund, because, I believe, prior to one of the bills you worked on there was none set aside for public transportation. SENATOR: That's been one of the proudest initiatives that I've ever fought. It was a hard fight to get the road builders of the state to understand that we needed diversity in our transportation options, especially for the poor, the elderly and those citizens who did not have automobiles, but yet still needed to get to work. We successfully fought to make bus systems a part of our transportation system, and as a result of the fight we now have the busses being funded out of our transportation revenue stream. It's not adequate, but we have before us an opportunity to make it adequate and that will come, I believe, when we get integrated within our transportation systems. Rail systems that will make the long-haul trips across town or across the region, and busses. It's been my observation from traveling around the world, busses do their best job when they're providing feeder assistance - short-term feeder roles to long-haul rail systems which have regular and efficient head ways. In a climate like Florida, where the heat is very tough, we've got to have systems that don't run on the same highways with our cars, that can make the long-hauls and keep good regular head ways. I think we need to fight for more funds for busses, but at some point in the future the public will realize that we're no different from other urban areas, that we need these other options. And the thing, I think, that will drive the decision to do that is the right-of-way cost. As we continue to provide mobility in urban areas, such as our coastal zone and the I-4 corridor, we're no longer buying raw agricultural land, as they do in Georgia and some other states, we're buying buildings: we're buying hotels, we're buying office buildings, we're buying strip shopping centers. If you're fiscally conservative, you don't want to waste peoples' money, to the extent that you can provide moving more people through the corridors we have existing. So that's going to be a challenge, but I think with those of us who are providing leadership, we will have to keep pointing out the options that are intelligent choices. You mentioned Atlanta and I'll mention Los Angeles, as well. Los Angeles built 4,000 miles of super-highway trying to solve their transportation woes, by building super-highways. And at the end of that process, building more highways than any other city in the world. They ended up with stagnant mobility - no mobility - their highways are parking lots. They polluted their air and degraded their environment. Atlanta has the longest commute in the world and its transportation problems have become the top concern of the civic leadership in Atlanta, because it's out of control. They're in trouble with the Environmental Department (Environmental Protection Agency-EPA) in Washington, so they have great problems in Atlanta. We don't have to go that direction, because we've seen others go that direction. We in Florida, I think, ought to sell our natural beauty to the world to come and visit. If we're going to indeed have natural beauty, we can't pave over paradise. TRIA: You're right and I hosted some meetings in Atlanta with Mayor Campbell, I believe, and it was on rail issue and they are now, more and more, taking a more progressive view. They are getting into commuter rail options and intercity options, because exactly as you outlined, you just can not pave your way out of the transportation problems. Speaking of that, I think that leads me into another area, and that is paving over paradise, degradation of environment and air quality. You filed a bill to encourage the use of low-sulfur gasoline. What's the benefits to the public? SENATOR: Well, as we look out into the future, we know that people are going to continue to want to have their automobiles, we know mobility is important as we bring more and more visitors. We also have an obligation, I think, as leaders to look out to make sure that air and water are clean and healthy. And so, I took it upon myself working with the Environmental Protection Commission - the EPC, as it's called - to speed-up air quality improvements in this area by requiring the use of low-sulfur fuel in the State of Florida. It is my view that that can have two beneficial side-effects: 1) it would make it completely unnecessary, and I would argue that it is unnecessary right now, based on the type of testing we were engaged in, to have these emissions tests, it would make it completely unnecessary, and it would mean that we would have a higher quality of clean air. For maybe a couple of cents a gallon, if that much, I've been told by some of the industry people that once they start making gas for a large market like Florida, that the economies of scale may mean that they can produce that gas as cheap as the current gasoline. So I believe the benefits of such an initiative will allow us to continue to grow our economy, continue to improve tourism, but not at the expense of the environment and the air quality. That's why we were pushing for that initiative. TRIA: You know some of the things, obviously, that we've been involved in Bay Area Commuter Services and many of the things that you've stressed over the years. Our mission is to educate the public on the use of vanpools and help people set-up the vanpools. We run that program for the five counties and the District 7 area of the Florida Department of Transportation. We encourage carpooling, flex time and telecommuting. I think some of those things really, as the future evolves, we will see more and more folks, perhaps, doing work from the home and being able to use the electronic era to provide a workplace at home, but to be in direct contact with their offices. That certainly is a means to help us to take some automobiles off of our crowded roadways. SENATOR: I think that all of the things that you just mentioned help eliminate congestion and also have a beneficial effect on the environment, because if you don't have cars standing on the roadways waiting to move, those cars aren't polluting our air. So Bay Area Commuter Services is providing enhanced environmental benefits with all the tools that you use, such as vanpooling and carpooling. You are not only providing air quality and environmental benefits, you're providing more efficient use of this infrastructure that we've invested in. We've got a tremendous investment in our state-wide transportation infrastructure and the more efficiently we can use it, the better off the taxpayer is. So I want to commend Bay Area Commuter Services for the fine job that you've done in helping us to more efficiently utilize the infrastructure we have. TRIA: In your travels around the country, and I know you've done quite a bit looking at different transportation issues in the various states, were you as astounded as I was, because I also have traveled quite a bit on my rail programs, at the fact that gasoline tax monies were not being able, in many states, to be used off-highway? And Florida is exactly the opposite. Florida has had a lot of vision in being able to allocate parts of its transportation trust fund monies to alternative means of transportation, which in my view, and I'm sure I share yours, is just a great benefit for this state. SENATOR: It's something that I'm impressed by, and it's one of those things that I take particular pride in as a public official, because it was through the leadership of the people on the Public Transportation Committee in the House, under my leadership, that we fought the fight to make sure that Florida citizens had choices. And I think that there's been probably no more significant initiative on our future economy, than the initiative that made us invest in busses, rail, aviation and seaports. With this state poised, as it is, to engage in international trade and international tourism - and many of our tourists come from places all over the world were they have public transportation systems - I think that we've had great vision. One thing, if we are able to execute in the near term, and I mean the near term is within the next 10 years, we're able to seriously begin to plan for choices within our mobility systems, the people of Florida will not only not perish, they will prosper in their economic outlook. TRIA: And that vision was back in the omnibus transportation bill in 1990, when the set-aside was made for public transportation. I think that was, as you say, a milestone. I mean, I've traveled around and very few states have had that kind of vision to integrate all of the aspects and tie together their airports, seaports, public transportation, roadway systems and allocate the funding for those systems. There's a lot of things Florida really has done that are, I think, light years ahead of some other places. SENATOR: We have that long term vision and those long term programs working. I want to underscore the impact that we had in this year's legislative session, where we came forth to make sure that those major arteries that serve our tourists, serve our industry, serve our seaports and serve our airports, that those arteries are healthy and are getting the kind of attention that they need. We're a little behind in our major statewide arteries that serve tourism, freight and other commercial needs. This year we made a sizeable investment, one of the most significant investments, in making our roadways effective and efficient, and we did it without raising taxes. That's the bill we passed that's called "Mobility 2000". TRIA: What is life after November going to be for Jim Hargrett? You're certainly not going to disappear from the scene, we won't let you. SENATOR: Well, as I indicated - and I came to the decision pretty late, Len - my friends, neighbors and constituents all suggested that I stay in law - in public service. I'm moving on to a different level of government, hopefully. I'm a candidate for the County Commission and if I'm elected to the County Commission, I can continue in this region the kind of work I've been carrying on at the state. That is, to make sure that this region has the kind of leadership and vision that we've enjoyed in the State of Florida, so that we can look out to the future, make the kind of policy adjustments and arguments that need to be made, so that people have the choices and that we move the community forward in a spirit of compromise. But never compromising the future and the choices of the people, so that they can have a prosperous and healthy life and economy. TRIA: I wish you the best in that, and you know that I'll always be around if you need any help. We've worked together a long time and I would really love to continue doing that. I enjoy transportation, it's a passion of mine as I know it's been with you. I want to tell you that I really thank you for visiting with us today, and good luck to you in the future. I know we need your talents, so don't you dare disappear. We've been speaking to Senator James T. Hargrett. This is Len Tria for the Bay Area Commuter Services "Transportation Wake-Up."